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What are your opinions on Water Fluoridation? Wrong? Good? It's been a controversial practice since the day it was initiated.
Here's something I wrote from another thread:
Hunterplusmariska wrote:
I have no problem with Fluoride being in antibiotics and medicines- or even antidepressants. Why? Because they normally require a prescription. A drug that typically requires the authorization of a doctor shouldn't be put inside of my drinking water so casually. Especially when it has toxic properties.
The Government isn't conspiring against us by adding Fluoride in our water. They're doing it to keep our teeth healthy and clean. It's a stupid reason, though. I was merely saying that Fluoride can make you like a walking zombie, basically. Hitler put Fluoride in water for the same reason we put it in antidepressants.
"living in a community with high levels of water-borne fluoride was associated with decreased bone mass*... a Lordsburg woman (high-fluoride community, 3.5 ppm) had approximately 7% less bone mass than a Deming (low fluoride community) peer of similar weight and years since menopause..." (SOURCE: Phipps KR, Burt BA. (1990). Water-borne fluoride and cortical bone mass: a comparison of two communities. Journal of Dental Research 69: 1256-1260.)
KIDNEY PROBLEMS:
Quote:
"Stockin points out, “Fluoride must be removed from water used for dialysis, but people with kidney stones, transplants, or other kidney issues ingest it in drinking water, foods, drugs, and from other sources without anyone knowing their total fluoride dose. Sounds a little like someone’s not telling the whole story of Fluoride-Gate,” he says.
“The kidneys are exposed to significant amounts of toxic fluoride as they try to eliminate it from the body,” he continues. “How many kidney patients could have avoided dialysis – or perhaps sadly even death from chronic kidney disease – if they had been told the whole story about fluoride toxicity?" (SOURCE:Daniel G. Stockin, 2008. National Kidney Foundation.)
CANCER: (This was a Harvard Casy Study!)
Quote:
"We observed that for males diagnosed before the age of 20 years, fluoride level in drinking water during growth was associated with an increased risk of osteosarcoma, demonstrating a peak in the odds ratios from 6 to 8 years of age. All of our models were remarkably robust in showing this effect, which coincides with the mid-childhood growth spurt. For females, no clear association between fluoride in drinking water during growth and osteosarcoma emerged." (SOURCE: Bassin EB, Wypij D, Davis RB, Mittleman MA. (2006). Age-specific Fluoride Exposure in Drinking Water and Osteosarcoma (United States). Cancer Causes and Control 17: 421-8.)
Quote:
"Recent studies showing substantial increases in the incidence of bone cancer and osteosarcoma in males..."
"...for males of all ages, the bone cancer death rate and bone cancer incidence rate was as much as 0.23 and 0.44 cases higher per 100,000 population, respectively, in fluoridated areas..."
"...these findings indicate that fluoridation is linked to an increase in bone cancer and deaths from bone cancer in human populations among males under age 20 and that this increase in bone cancer is probably all due to an increase in osteosarcoma caused by fluoride." (SOURCE: SOURCE: Yiamouyiannis JA. (1993). Fluoridation and cancer: The biology and epidemiology of bone and oral cancer related to fluoridation. Fluoride 26:83-96)
ARTHRITIS:
Quote:
"The radiological severity of knee osteoarthritis was greater in the endemic fluorosis group than in controls... endemic fluorosis may increase the severity of osteoarthritis in the knees." (SOURCE: Savas S, et al. (2001). Endemic fluorosis in Turkish patients: relationship with knee osteoarthritis. Rheumatology International 21: 30-5.)
Quote:
"Radiographs of the skeleton and bone scintigraphy showed degenerative osteoarthritis... Interestingly, laboratory findings, skeletal radiographs and bone densitometry, gave no indication for abnormalities of bone metabolism or mineralization. Without bone biopsy we would have failed the correct diagnosis (of skeletal fluorosis)." SOURCE: Roschger P, et al. (1995). Bone mineral structure after six years fluoride treatment investigated by backscattered electron imaging (BSEI) and small angle x-ray scattering (SAXS): a case report. Bone 16:407.
THYROID PROBLEMS:
Quote:
“In summary, evidence of several types indicates that fluoride affects normal endocrine function or response; the effects of the fluoride-induced changes vary in degree and kind in different individuals. Fluoride is therefore an endocrine disruptor in the broad sense of altering normal endocrine function or response, although probably not in the sense of mimicking a normal hormone. The mechanisms of action remain to be worked out and appear to include both direct and indirect mechanisms, for example, direct stimulation or inhibition of hormone secretion by interference with second messenger function, indirect stimulation or inhibition of hormone secretion by effects on things such as calcium balance, and inhibition of peripheral enzymes that are necessary for activation of the normal hormone.” (SOURCE: National Research Council. (2006).Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards. National Academies Press, Washington D.C. p 223.)
FLUORIDE DOESN'T WORK EVEN WORK:
Quote:
“Although the prevalence of caries varies between countries, levels [of tooth decay] everywhere have fallen greatly in the past three decades, and national rates of caries are now universally low. This trend has occurred regardless of the concentration of fluoride in water or the use of fluoridated salt, and it probably reflects use of fluoridated toothpastes and other factors, including perhaps aspects of nutrition.” (SOURCE: Cheng KK, et al. (2007). Adding fluoride to water supplies. British Medical Journal 335(7622):699-702.)
Quote:
"In most European countries, where community water fluoridation has never been adopted, a substantial decline in caries prevalence has been reported in the last decades, with reductions in lifetime caries experience exceeding 75%." (SOURCE: Pizzo G, et al. (2007). Community water fluoridation and caries prevention: a critical review. Clinical Oral Investigations 11(3):189-93.)
GRAPH SHOWING THIS CORRELATION:
Last edited by hunterplusmariska on 14th January, 2012, 3:13 am, edited 6 times in total.
Joined: 16th May, 2011, 3:17 am Posts: 1085 Location: Berlin, Germany
Fluoride is entirely unnecessary. And it can be dangerous if you're drinking tap water (which I'm sure many people do). It's totally not meant to be ingested.
Fluoride is entirely unnecessary. And it can be dangerous if you're drinking tap water (which I'm sure many people do). It's totally not meant to be ingested.
Germany fluoridates their salt, right?
Last edited by hunterplusmariska on 13th January, 2012, 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
I don't especially agree with it - I'm not sure it's really necessary or all that effective as opposed to education/ dental subsidies. That said, I think for everyone but a small minority, it's largely non-problematic. That said, if even a few people lose access to water due to genuine hypersensitivity to fluoridation, that seems to severely undermine the proper purview of government.
It's marginally acceptable in exceedingly small quantities, quantities that are smaller than what's already in municipal water systems. Even in tiny quantities, fluoridation is hardly justified.
I don't especially agree with it - I'm not sure it's really necessary or all that effective as opposed to education/ dental subsidies. That said, I think for everyone but a small minority, it's largely non-problematic. That said, if even a few people lose access to water due to genuine hypersensitivity to fluoridation, that seems to severely undermine the proper purview of government.
You don't necessarily to be hypersensitive to experience the negative health effects of Fluoride. If you suffer from Dental Fluorosis (white/brown spots on your teeth) there's a good chance you have some degree of Fluoride poisoning. It's more prevalent then you'd think-- 23% of Americans have some type of Dental Fluorosis and that study was of late 2005. That number has only gone up.
An interesting experiment is to go off fluoridated water for about a month. There's a good chance you'll just simply become more energetic.
The sedentary effect of fluoride is mindblowing. There is a reason it's put in antidepressants and some select tranquilizers.
Joined: 31st August, 2011, 4:03 am Posts: 85 Location: West Plains, MO
First off, thank you for spelling "fluoridation" correctly. It drives me insane when people flip the u and the o.
My town has an unusually high amount of fluoride in the water. There's actually so many various substances in the "city water," as it's called here, that I've heard of doctors not recommending people to drink from the tap.
My house gets water from a well, and there's a HUGE difference (and not a good one) in taste between that water, which tastes a lot like bottled water, and the "city water." That's precisely why I avoid drinking the city water when possible.
Joined: 16th May, 2011, 3:17 am Posts: 1085 Location: Berlin, Germany
hunterplusmariska wrote:
Geometrix wrote:
Fluoride is entirely unnecessary. And it can be dangerous if you're drinking tap water (which I'm sure many people do). It's totally not meant to be ingested.
Germany fluoridates their salt, right?
A large amount salt you can buy in stores is fluoridated, and you really never know when it comes to dining out. I always make sure it's not fluoridated. Shit's nasty. It's sadly a tad more expensive. Mostly the GDR used to fluoridate water.
Yeah, it might be good for your teeth enamel, but that's why we have dentists to fluoridate our teeth for us. We don't need to ingest it.
Joined: 4th October, 2011, 8:40 am Posts: 767 Location: California
DannyZ wrote:
Given some of the shit posted by a few select members (they're also present in this thread), I don't know what's a joke anymore.
noun 1. something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.
I kid Danny
I find it funny, that as advanced as our technology is, we still seem to find ways to not use them. Reverse osmosis, highest quality filtering systems, why aren't these methods integrated, instead of chemical integration??
Joined: 18th March, 2011, 10:07 am Posts: 1824 Location: Commonwealth of Australia (Tasmania) Country:
It is really not that bad, at least we have clean drinkable water. A 2007 Australian review concluded that water fluoridation is the most effective and socially the most equitable way to expose entire communities to fluoride's cavity-prevention effects. Not to mention that it is in a much higher concentration in toothpaste and who didn't eat that from the tube when they were younger?
Also this study was done under the Howard government so no chance of them lying to the people read the quote in my sig
It is really not that bad, at least we have clean drinkable water. A 2007 Australian review concluded that water fluoridation is the most effective and socially the most equitable way to expose entire communities to fluoride's cavity-prevention effects. Not to mention that it is in a much higher concentration in toothpaste and who didn't eat that from the tube when they were younger?
How is it the most effective, yet even in countries who don't fluoridate water have experienced a gradual decline in tooth decay?
This page seems to disagree with the study conducted by the Howard Government. It's been proven ineffective numerous times. The risks grossly outweigh the benefits.
Oh, for the record, I did. Look where it got me. Even The American Dentist Association has warned parents not to give fluoridated baby formulas to their children as it could irreparably damage their teeth.
Joined: 2nd September, 2008, 7:09 pm Posts: 1951 Location: Near London, UK Country:
Flouride is definitely good for your teeth and places in the UK which use it have a far lower level of tooth decay than other places. Yeah, it will have been linked to some illnesses, but the quantities it is in in drinking water are not high. People all use flouride toothpaste, and it's not as if none of it ever runs down the back of your throat. If you line up a group of people, they'll all be convinced that they contracted some form of illness due to X, Y or Z.
A good example was a mobile telephone mast was built in a town and the locals immediately all started suffering headaches and other symptoms synonymous with what people claim to experience from mobile telephone masts. The only problem was that the mast hadn't been switched on yet. OOPS.
It is really not that bad, at least we have clean drinkable water. A 2007 Australian review concluded that water fluoridation is the most effective and socially the most equitable way to expose entire communities to fluoride's cavity-prevention effects. Not to mention that it is in a much higher concentration in toothpaste and who didn't eat that from the tube when they were younger?
How is it the most effective, yet even in countries who don't fluoridate water have experienced a gradual decline in tooth decay?
This page seems to disagree with the study conducted by the Howard Government. It's been proven ineffective numerous times. The risks grossly outweigh the benefits.
Oh, for the record, I did. Look where it got me. Even The American Dentist Association has warned parents not to give fluoridated baby formulas to their children as it could irreparably damage their teeth.
You really need to stop using crap references from google in your arguments.
OT: It's a bit of a non-issue, it's probably not overly required but there's not much/no concrete evidence over iffy conjecture that long term fluoride exposure is significantly harmful.
Last edited by bounce on 13th January, 2012, 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You aren't required to drink the water. Bottled water generally has less toxic fluoride. Or, if you're really into the conspiracy theories, just buy yourself a distiller.
You aren't required to drink the water. Bottled water generally has less toxic fluoride. Or, if you're really into the conspiracy theories, just buy yourself a distiller.
*Wonders if comment will be ignored again*
Indeed. Were I one to buy into conspiracy theories, I'd hazard a guess that all this anti-fluoride research is a marketing scheme to sell such nonsense as bottled water and distillers to the paranoid among us.
Its not some lovely thing that they buy for your teeth. The shit is pretty much toxic waste.
The idea that putting it in the drinking water is good is fucking retarded. Toothpaste is good for your teeth too, should we put that in the drinking water?
There's no way to know how much fluoride you ingest and its not doing shit for dental hygiene. Also one more step to fucking up people enamel from over fluoridation,
Also fucked because does the government buy you a reverse osmosis filter? Of course not. You should not be able to put chemicals like that in the water supply. If you want to buy a filter that adds fluoride or something go for it. I just think it's fucked that they're allowed to do this when it's forcing people to drink it.
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Posted: 13th January, 2012, 1:05 am 
So unsafe.
Even The American Dentist Association has warned parents not to give fluoridated baby formulas to their children as it could irreparably damage their teeth.