How many genders?

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How many genders are there?

2
15
63%
3
4
17%
>3
5
21%
 
Total votes : 24

Re: How many genders?

Unread postby WOLFwag » 16th August, 2017, 10:07 pm

OK, first, the way I understand it, gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things that fit into sexuality as a whole. This is why I think we shouldn't generalize LGBT+ because the T, I and D are gender identity while L, G, B, Q, P and A are sexual orientation. I think that there are only three sexes, but gender is a form of self expression and shouldn't be limited, just like sexuality isn't. If someone can feel attracted to all genders, why can't someone be all genders?
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby (un)creative » 18th August, 2017, 5:35 am

Could somebody please explain why people think that intersex is a different sex? It´ s a birth defect.
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby Togetik » 18th August, 2017, 6:39 am

(un)creative wrote:Could somebody please explain why people think that intersex is a different sex? It´ s a birth defect.


Because it doesn't fit any kind of layman definition of either sex? If it's not considered being a third sex, then what is it?

It's part of why sex is such a ridiculously hard thing to actually define despite how easy it sounds like it'd be, there's just too much variance in physical traits or characteristics and there's no hierarchy of which ones are the most/least important characteristics used to define it
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby (un)creative » 18th August, 2017, 7:33 am

Togetik wrote:
(un)creative wrote:Could somebody please explain why people think that intersex is a different sex? It´ s a birth defect.


Because it doesn't fit any kind of layman definition of either sex? If it's not considered being a third sex, then what is it?

It's part of why sex is such a ridiculously hard thing to actually define despite how easy it sounds like it'd be, there's just too much variance in physical traits or characteristics and there's no hierarchy of which ones are the most/least important characteristics used to define it


Well. As I already said, it's a birth defect. It's still possible to figure out your real sex by e.g. checking your chromosomes. You still have either an XX or an XY chromosome.
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby Togetik » 18th August, 2017, 8:10 am

(un)creative wrote:Well. As I already said, it's a birth defect. It's still possible to figure out your real sex by e.g. checking your chromosomes. You still have either an XX or an XY chromosome.


Ok but... why is "real sex" determined by chromosomes? In the same vein, you can have XY people who develop completely anatomically female, are they "really male" despite being completely fertile women that otherwise wouldn't know unless they entered a situation where they needed to have karyotype test?
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby (un)creative » 18th August, 2017, 9:44 am

Togetik wrote:Ok but... why is "real sex" determined by chromosomes? In the same vein, you can have XY people who develop completely anatomically female, are they "really male" despite being completely fertile women that otherwise wouldn't know unless they entered a situation where they needed to have karyotype test?

The sex you will develop is defined by your chromosomes.
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby Togetik » 18th August, 2017, 12:48 pm

(un)creative wrote:The sex you will develop is defined by your chromosomes.


Sort of? I mean, hormone production during development is actually a pretty huge factor in sex characteristic development. The specific example I gave is a real one and there's a couple of conditions that can cause it, and a ton more than can cause it minus the fully fertile part
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby (un)creative » 18th August, 2017, 2:18 pm

Togetik wrote:Sort of? I mean, hormone production during development is actually a pretty huge factor in sex characteristic development. The specific example I gave is a real one and there's a couple of conditions that can cause it, and a ton more than can cause it minus the fully fertile part

No. The chromosomes define which hormones are being produced during the sex development. The example you gave is called the de la Chapelle (sorry if I misspelled that, I learned that in biochemistry about a year ago...) syndrome and is a really rare disorder caused by an XY Chromosome crossover that makes the Y chromosome kinda appear as an X chromosome, although it contains the same information as the Y chromosome, which is why the child still develops as a male.
Last edited by (un)creative on 18th August, 2017, 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby (un)creative » 18th August, 2017, 2:23 pm

Sorry, I just saw that you talked about an xy female. That's called the sywer desease or something...
These people are very feminine and don't have puperty if they don't get proper treatment. Again a genetic defect
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby Togetik » 19th August, 2017, 11:42 am

(un)creative wrote:Sorry, I just saw that you talked about an xy female. That's called the sywer desease or something...
These people are very feminine and don't have puperty if they don't get proper treatment. Again a genetic defect


That's kind of a big generalisation that's nowhere near always correct, but there's actually a bunch of different conditions that can lead to that same outcome.

My point is that even if your write them off as "just birth defects" that means nothing because they still don't fit into either sex by the arbitrary definitions you're using here, unless you're suggesting "birth defects" is a sex in which case that's just intersex by a different, more insulting, name
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby (un)creative » 19th August, 2017, 1:55 pm

Togetik wrote:That's kind of a big generalisation that's nowhere near always correct, but there's actually a bunch of different conditions that can lead to that same outcome.

My point is that even if your write them off as "just birth defects" that means nothing because they still don't fit into either sex by the arbitrary definitions you're using here, unless you're suggesting "birth defects" is a sex in which case that's just intersex by a different, more insulting, name

It's not a generalisation, it's biology. That's the way it is. You have XX chromosomes, you're a girl. You have XY chromosomes, you're a boy. You got something else, birth defect.

No, I'm not suggesting that birth defect should be another sex. A birth defect is a medical condition. It's not true that they don't fit into either side. If something like that happened, where it's not possible to determine your sex by "looking at you" they check other things. The most common one is checking the chromosomes. If you wanna go the expensive way, you can do an MRI. There's a part of the brain that has a certain structure depending on your sex. I forgot the name of it.

And saying that calling intersex a birth defect is offensive is like if you say that calling diabetes or cancer an illness is offensive.
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby Dr. Spears » 19th August, 2017, 3:14 pm

Personally, I believe 2, but I am open to other ideas, facts etc. Be what you want, with whoever you want within the law.

As long as it doesn't cause harm to people such as cases where people get extremely triggered when expecting society to know their preferences etc. But besides that.. Image
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby Biscotti » 19th August, 2017, 7:42 pm

(In my opinion) there are 2 genders. I always thought this was funny because a lot of LGBT people are the proponents of a "spectrum of gender". More specifically I found it ironic that bisexual people thought there were more than two, simply because the prefix "bi" means 2.
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby Peekaboo » 20th August, 2017, 8:48 am

(un)creative wrote:There's this nice wonderful thing called science, that proves the "only two genders" thing. I'm not gonna ignore facts just because someone "feels" something different.

I have one thing to add, while you are on the right lines i have a slight adjustment.
There are only 2 sexes yes but that is not interchangeable with the term 'gender', that is in a state of flux as our society changes over the ages. So fundamentally you are right, you just used the wrong term thats all.

Gender is more of a role as i understand it, so caregiver, hunter/gatherer etc. this can change as our needs shift and so there can be more than two roles.

This coincides with my original post about peoples sexual preferences, which i'd argue shouldn't be attribute to gender either since it shouldn't matter. And sex is much less relevant than it used to be for people to fill societal roles so that shouldn't attribute to it either (i'd argue it doesn't anyway).

In case I've just rambled a bit: In short, i mean to say that there ARE only 2 sexes in humans but there can be more genders and sexual preference tends to infinity 'cause we're human and weird like that.

I understand that this also has changed a little compared to my original post as i came to realise that my own definitions were also incorrect and have since adapted, my views however have not changed.
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby Peekaboo » 20th August, 2017, 9:19 am

This discussion is redundant as people are misunderstanding the term they are using as i did, the question in the poll should say 'sexes' instead of 'genders' and the two terms shouldn't be used interchangeably, i believe that a lot of this argument (in general, not this thread <3) as been a waste as its over a term that has been misunderstood to represent sex.

I believe most people would agree that you can be attracted to a range of things that aren't the opposite or same sex, or not be attracted at all. I believe that most people would agree that a person sex doesn't define their role in society, and i believe that most people would agree that these arguments should be behind us as a society as they shouldn't be relevant.

As a liberal, i believe in equal rights and opportunity for all and thus these terms only apply labels where there should be none. everyone's a little unique. or...
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Re: How many genders?

Unread postby c70 » 21st August, 2017, 11:34 pm

Im sure this point has been brought up already. However, it is important that we make the distinction between humans biological sex and gender identities. I operate under the policy that I will call you whatever pronoun you would like providing that I am notified in advance. I would consider myself a very liberal person, however I believe that the wrong question is being asked. The question in itself: "How many genders are there" is completely mis-guided and incorporates sex. gender identity, and even sexual orientation into an already confusing and controversial question.

My conclusion, although I love to debate this topic, is that there is 2 sexes. Multiple gender identities.
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