Islamic Thread

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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby GayArabStoner » 10th May, 2017, 3:00 pm

Togetik wrote:Aren't these discussions inherently flawed when they don't include anyone from the group in question? I know we probably don't have anyone from a muslim background on here, but there's enough discussion about these topics from people who are that it's probably more productive than second hand back and forth-ing


Me tho haha? I consider myself a muslim and was brought up in a strict muslim environment
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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby Mawd » 10th May, 2017, 3:24 pm

Ω wrote:Another one of these threads huh. I thought we were all enlightened enough to understand that Islam like other religions has some views and a culture that can be dangerous towards certain groups like woman and gays and needs to rapidly change. I don't exactly see a discussion aside from "Islam is bad because blah blah" and then "Yes but so is Christianity." This doesn't belong in I.D as it only perpetuates the negative atmosphere that has been present in this sub-forum for far too long and the discussion is far from productive, it only acts as a platform for everyone to state already well known opinions.


Spin off topic: Liberals, Why Should They Exist?

Liberals start wars and only some of them support gays in some countries. Clearly liberals cannot escape some fundamental degeneracy within their dogma and the world has no place for their dated views.
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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby GayArabStoner » 10th May, 2017, 4:27 pm

Mawd wrote:
Ω wrote:Another one of these threads huh. I thought we were all enlightened enough to understand that Islam like other religions has some views and a culture that can be dangerous towards certain groups like woman and gays and needs to rapidly change. I don't exactly see a discussion aside from "Islam is bad because blah blah" and then "Yes but so is Christianity." This doesn't belong in I.D as it only perpetuates the negative atmosphere that has been present in this sub-forum for far too long and the discussion is far from productive, it only acts as a platform for everyone to state already well known opinions.


Spin off topic: Liberals, Why Should They Exist?

Liberals start wars and only some of them support gays in some countries. Clearly liberals cannot escape some fundamental degeneracy within their dogma and the world has no place for their dated views.


??? What wars have liberals started...
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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby Mawd » 10th May, 2017, 4:39 pm

GayArabStoner wrote:
Mawd wrote:Spin off topic: Liberals, Why Should They Exist?

Liberals start wars and only some of them support gays in some countries. Clearly liberals cannot escape some fundamental degeneracy within their dogma and the world has no place for their dated views.


??? What wars have liberals started...


A) you missed the joke.

B) if you ignore post history revisionism then quite a few.
Liberals have existed for as long as fundamentalists have criticised them. Ever since Krug yelled at Ugg for not just smiting his enemy, but failing to defecate on him as well.

C) this goes especially as an allegory of religious orthodoxy. All of the most fundamental religious practices today would likely show some form of 'liberal' influence when judged by their more severe forebears from dark ages past.
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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby Cxurujeto » 11th May, 2017, 12:32 am

Some posts I missed
Kaspar wrote:Actually Pity, Jon is probably right, Europe and its culture has always been homophobic too until like what?... 20 years ago? 30?


I disagree. For one example, I'd say Germany before WWII had a nice span of time in which gay people lived happily. Also, there is evidence that homosexuality was commonplace in a number of ancient European cultures

Scherzy wrote:Radical islam? Yes, practiced by very few. Political and social oppression of sexual, religious and gender minorities? Accepted and propagated by a large majority of countries at hand. As polls, studies, and politics have continually showed us, muslim-majority countries tend to be very homophobic, just as religiously christian majority countries are.


I disagree, far more than a few muslims are radical:
"Seven percent of Muslims in America told Pew researchers that violence against civilians is “sometimes” justified in the name of Islam, and 1% said “often.”"
Also from the Pew study:
"a few years ago finding that 57% of the population of 11 Muslim countries had a negative view of Al Qaeda - which means the people who didn’t have a negative view of Al Qaeda are a minority of the general population comparable to supporters of Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders in the United States."
People with a negative view of:
Taliban 51%
Hamas 45%
Hezbollah 42%
"based on the 2013 Pew Research Center report, are 88% of Muslims in Egypt and 62% of Muslims in Pakistan favor the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion. "
" Around the world, most Muslims also reject suicide bombing and other attacks against
civilians. However, substantial minorities in several countries say such acts of violence are at
least sometimes justified, including 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh, 29% in Egypt, 39% in
Afghanistan and 40% in the Palestinian territories."
[Reveal] Spoiler: More stuff from this study, and a link to the 226 page study
The percentage of Muslims who say they want sharia to be “the official law of the land” varies
widely around the world, from fewer than one-in-ten in Azerbaijan (8%) to near unanimity in
Afghanistan (99%). But solid majorities in most of the countries surveyed across the Middle
East and North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia and Southeast Asia favor the
establishment of sharia, including 71% of Muslims in Nigeria, 72% in Indonesia, 74% in Egypt
and 89% in the Palestinian territories.
At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing
for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for
example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their
religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of
Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are
possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries –
think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have
differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf


2014 Anti-Defamation League study:
"A full 74 percent of North African and Middle Eastern residents registered anti-Semitic beliefs, including 92 percent of Iraqis, a whopping 69 percent of relatively secular Turks, and 74 percent of Saudis."

The Times writes:
"More than twice as many British Muslims have travelled to Syria and Iraq to wage jihad than have joined the British military over the past three years.
The difference could be even greater after it was claimed last night that the number of Britons to have fought with Islamic State (Isis) and other extremist groups in the region was much higher than the 400 to 500 identified by police.
One MP said that more than 1,500 British militants had joined the fight to create a caliphate, while a leading figure in the Muslim community put the figure at between 600 and 1,000. About 560 Muslims serve in the British army.
The figures came as the hunt intensified for the British jihadist who beheaded the American…"



Scherzy wrote:Violent manifestation of Islam is absolutely a product of western intervention. If you've been reading this thread you should have realized we're all very aware of that. As a result, in the past decades Islam has been essentially weaponized against western culture and unavoidably so, social progression.

If you read the Quran and the Hadiths, you would know that assertion is unequivocally false.
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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby GeoMorrisons » 12th May, 2017, 12:10 pm

I don't think you can ever trust polls, for whatever matter. Mainly because their scopes are so limited to a certain number of people, that, and sometimes, the person who creates the poll wants to paint a certain picture. Before you call me a conspiracy theorist, i think it's naive to think any entity other than governments or other various organisations such as the UN can make unbiased polls, and even then it's justified to be sceptical.

Either Way, to get back on track, On the subject of LGBT rights, Islam is definitely much more extreme. I want to show the below map as an example.
Image

The only countries in africa that execute homosexuals (Or possibly other LGBT+ sub groups, for that matter) are all countries that have a population that mainly practices Islam. However, you also can't ignore the countries that outlaw it too. I think it's easy to agree, just as many christian as islamic countries outlaw homosexuality (idk how much sense that makes, but i couldn't rephrase it). So christianity isn't a religion of peace either, though it's the better of two evils? Now, i don't think any religions are evil, and i'm not going to tell anyone what's right or wrong, but i think the debate (on the subject of LGBT matters at least) should be more about East VS West civilization. Vs the west, eastern cultures massively look down on Homosexuality, with russia, (I can't say i know much about orthodox christianity i must admit, so correct anything here) being a country where the majority practice orthodox christianity.

I feel muslims in the west are always going to be more liberal than those in the east, but there's still a long way to go on that front too i believe.Either Way, i'm going to say here i'm atheist, so call me biased if you want. I think it's human nature that someone will ALWAYS be oppressed, there was a first person to be racist and a first person to be homophobic, and i don't think they learnt that off their parents.

All religions that do discriminate have a way to go, but so does the world; Atheists are also racist, etc. I feel like Islam, as unpeaceful as it seems and arguably is, is demonised far too much.
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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby rubytan » 12th May, 2017, 12:15 pm

say hi to al mulk, my lovely surah
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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby Cxurujeto » 12th May, 2017, 3:42 pm

rubytan wrote:say hi to al mulk, my lovely surah


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Re: Islamic Thread

Unread postby Lightbringer » 18th May, 2017, 12:15 pm

Didn't want to make a thread for this. Tomorrow is Iran's presidential election. Results will be known on Sunday however, early in the morning. (Iran's time)

This election has some significance. Rouhani, an Islamic Democrat, reformist and moderate is going against Raisi, a hardliner, Islamist conservative. Rouhani has established decent relations with the west. Trump's election ruined Obama's efforts. but Europe remains open for negotiations. If Raisi is elected, all that effort during past 4 years will be for nothing and everything will went back to how they were.

The right wing in Iran are objectively worse, because what do you think they are trying to "conserve"? The good old days of Islam. Its simply too backwards to exist, and people in Iran generally vote for moderates. However during the last year the west has antagonized Iran way too much, so its possible they might lose hope for mending relations and suffering due to sanctions is causing a lot of pressure. Raisi has decent chance of winning, which has me worried.
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