Why do people like the Queen of England?

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Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Oracle » 22nd March, 2017, 4:18 am

Royalty is a topic that makes me angry. Very few monarchs have ever been good people or intentionally done good things, and MANY have done HORRIBLE things. Most monarchs exist because they, or someone else claimed that God gave them the authority to rule or that they were given the authority by someone who was given the authority by God. The Queen only has a title because of her ancestors, who had no right to their power. The people only gave them power because they were brainwashed to believe that it was their right.

I am sure she is a wonderful woman, but why do people pay taxes to her? Why does she have more rights? Are people still so brainwashed that they believe it? Why are you expected to bow before her? She is just a privileged rich woman! So many democrats and Europeans, the British being no exception, believe the rich should be taxed more, but you have a rich woman who doesn't have to do anything who lives lavishly off of YOUR taxes! So hard working people who managed to become successful have to pay higher taxes to support the poor through well fare, but this one woman(and her family) get to be rich off of everyone's money without earning it? How does this add up?

Call me blasphemous, but if I ever meet the Queen, I'm not going to show any more deference than I would to any other old woman, and I am sure as hell not calling her "your majesty". She is a mere human being, there is nothing special about her, I will not call her majestic simply because I am expected to.

Why do people like the Queen? I just don't understand it! She should be dethroned.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Togetik » 22nd March, 2017, 5:08 am

She's a hold over that represents the UK and it's modern history, she's kind of like the personification of what britain was and what it's become
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Russell » 22nd March, 2017, 6:35 am

Because people love imagery. Even if a monarch holds no power, they are a an important figurehead behind which the masses instill their faith and ideals. People love the Queen, because she represents the amalgamation of new and old Britain, a salute to their rich history and conquest and most importantly their pride. A grand symbol of nationalism if you will.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Jacketh » 22nd March, 2017, 7:04 am

Unrelated, but there is a really, really, good article about what happens when she dies: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... don-bridge

The level of detail and planning is crazy.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Pity » 22nd March, 2017, 8:55 am

I too see a monarchy as unnecessary and bad, however, the Queen is largely symbolic and does not have the same power as the kings a few hundred years ago. With that said, the Royal Family is given these sums of money because she is a tourist attraction. Without the fanciful history, ornate palaces, and quirky titles, Britain has little to offer that other countries don't.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby JonathanT88 » 22nd March, 2017, 12:29 pm

She's symbolic and provides a sense of continuity with the past.

I like British history and perhaps that leads me to be slightly romantic about our monarchy (even though they've done little but exploit people themselves, or condone government exploitation), but sentimentality aside they are pointless.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Sturgeon » 22nd March, 2017, 12:53 pm

In my mind the organic evolution of the British Monarchy over the last 300 years since the start of the Hanoverian Dynasty has been an astounding success.

The Queen's duty as Head of State is performed just as effectively as any other head of state. If we weren't to have a monarch this role would no doubt have to be performed by a newly created position and I must ask to what purpose? The Queen is beyond doubt the most experienced HoS still in office.

Perhaps even worse, the position of HoS could be merged with Head of Government, and I know how tiresome you lot are of populist demagogues. The role of Prime Minister has already become too 'presidential' for my liking.

Oracle wrote:but why do people pay taxes to her?

They don't. Before 2011, the Monarch's income was granted by the Civil List. At this time all of the revenue from the Crown Estates was surrendered and the Queen given an annual grant. This grant, in modern times, has always been less than the earned revenues on the Crown Estates, meaning a net gain for HM's Government. The civil list was abolished in 2011, though. Now, the Government receives 85% of all of the Queen's income (The Crown Estates), and with the remaining 15% she is expected to fund all of the official duties, including staff salaries, State Visits, public engagements, ceremonial functions and the upkeep of the Royal Households. Furthermore, an 85% tax on all of the Queen's revenue makes her the most taxed person in the United Kingdom.

Oracle wrote:but you have a rich woman who doesn't have to do anything who lives lavishly off of YOUR taxes!


I imagine your discontent has been fueled by the media's recent uproar about the £369 million it's going to cost for the much needed refurbish of Buckingham palace. It may please you to know that there will be but one taxpayer paying for the refurbishments: The Queen. for the next 10 years, Parliament have approved a temporary reduction on the Queen's taxed income (a 75% tax rather than 85%) meaning that sufficient repairs can be made.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby George » 22nd March, 2017, 1:03 pm

She's a cultural icon, a source of income, and a staple of British culture. She plays a very important role in the functioning of the state, I would hate to see a state without her.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Vortex » 22nd March, 2017, 1:13 pm

Oracle wrote:you have a rich woman who doesn't have to do anything who lives lavishly off of YOUR taxes!

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Oracle wrote:Call me blasphemous, but if I ever meet the Queen, I'm not going to show any more deference than I would to any other old woman, and I am sure as hell not calling her "your majesty".

I hope her guards beat you.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Sturgeon » 22nd March, 2017, 1:14 pm

Jacketh wrote:Unrelated, but there is a really, really, good article about what happens when she dies: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... don-bridge

The level of detail and planning is crazy.


I'm just glad BBC Three has gone off the air before her passing
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Vortex » 22nd March, 2017, 1:16 pm

When the Queen Mother passed away on the afternoon of Easter Saturday, in 2002, at the Royal Lodge in Windsor, she had time to telephone friends to say goodbye, and to give away some of her horses.


Damn that bitch died classily.
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Ebsy wrote:Leave it to losers on Twitter to complain about being pandered to. You're supposed to complain when someone panders to others, not to you.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Stark » 22nd March, 2017, 7:30 pm

Even as a republican in principle, I recognise that there are much bigger problems in this country than some old woman wearing a crown being carted out a few times a year so we can cling on to some kind of imperial grandeur. I think eventually we'll realise how ridiculous it all looks, probably after Elizabeth dies and we stop associating the monarchy with empire and stability.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Oracle » 22nd March, 2017, 7:43 pm

Vortex wrote:
Oracle wrote:you have a rich woman who doesn't have to do anything who lives lavishly off of YOUR taxes!

Image
Oracle wrote:Call me blasphemous, but if I ever meet the Queen, I'm not going to show any more deference than I would to any other old woman, and I am sure as hell not calling her "your majesty".

I hope her guards beat you.


*Ahem* Donald Trump isn't taking the presidential salary, so she isn't getting any of our money, it's her husband's. Even if she was doing nothing but living lavishly off of our taxes, there is a BIG difference.
Trump was ELECTED by the PEOPLE.
The Queen only has money because people are brainwashed to believe that it is her birthright.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Mawd » 22nd March, 2017, 7:44 pm

Nationalism and political branding.

Anyway she might have no direct political power but you can't tell me she doesn't put in a good word in someone's ear from time to time.

Anyway I don't mind her as much as the Knighthood system; I've met some really terrible knights and most of the time they knelt for business services.

Idk its hard to really appreciate that title after an older man angrily justified his moral authority and importance after sexually harassing a friend of mine by bragging about his knighthood.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Stark » 22nd March, 2017, 7:46 pm

Oracle wrote:*Ahem* Donald Trump isn't taking the presidential salary, so she isn't getting any of our money, it's her husband's. Even if she was doing nothing but living lavishly off of our taxes, there is a BIG difference.
Trump was ELECTED by the PEOPLE.
The Queen only has money because people are brainwashed to believe that it is her birthright.

Really?

Also, you've completely ignored Merkel's good explanation of how the Queen doesn't take any tax money, but instead lives off the Crown Estate - which is technically her personal property.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Mawd » 22nd March, 2017, 7:48 pm

Oof. Curb your blasphemy Vortex
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Stark » 22nd March, 2017, 7:49 pm

Mawd wrote:Anyway she might have no direct political power but you can't tell me she doesn't put in a good word in someone's ear from time to time.

This is the best critique of monarchy I've read so far. Interestingly, the Queen is one of the first monarchs to completely step back from an active role and there's no reason to believe it'll continue when she dies. I think I've read of interviews with Charles where he's claimed he'll take more of an active role on things he's passionate about, like agriculture and environmental protection. It's a tricky situation because I think monarchical activism is the only thing that could persuade the Tories not to treat the environment like shit, but then a king influencing government isn't something I'm comfortable with.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby GaycrazyBoi » 22nd March, 2017, 7:56 pm

Oracle wrote:Royalty is a topic that makes me angry. Very few monarchs have ever been good people or intentionally done good things, and MANY have done HORRIBLE things. Most monarchs exist because they, or someone else claimed that God gave them the authority to rule or that they were given the authority by someone who was given the authority by God. The Queen only has a title because of her ancestors, who had no right to their power. The people only gave them power because they were brainwashed to believe that it was their right.

I am sure she is a wonderful woman, but why do people pay taxes to her? Why does she have more rights? Are people still so brainwashed that they believe it? Why are you expected to bow before her? She is just a privileged rich woman! So many democrats and Europeans, the British being no exception, believe the rich should be taxed more, but you have a rich woman who doesn't have to do anything who lives lavishly off of YOUR taxes! So hard working people who managed to become successful have to pay higher taxes to support the poor through well fare, but this one woman(and her family) get to be rich off of everyone's money without earning it? How does this add up?

Call me blasphemous, but if I ever meet the Queen, I'm not going to show any more deference than I would to any other old woman, and I am sure as hell not calling her "your majesty". She is a mere human being, there is nothing special about her, I will not call her majestic simply because I am expected to.

Why do people like the Queen? I just don't understand it! She should be dethroned.


Okay, time to be an Anarchist and be pro-monarch

1. She's a symbol. She's utterly powerless.

2. She's a part of tradition. It's a strong tie to the past.

3. She is an important figure. You can't dethrone her.

4. You don't know how England works, do you?

5. I'm a fucking anarchist and I would call the woman "Your Majesty". I might not value her more than I value another old woman. But she's a fucking QUEEN. Be respectful!
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Sturgeon » 22nd March, 2017, 8:01 pm

If you're looking to cast disgust at unelected individuals who live a life of luxury then look no further than the 'First Family' of the United States of America. It cost 1.4bn to run the White House during the Obama administration. I've no idea how you can justify a 24hr cinema as a necessary expenditure.

This is what happens when you mix the Head of State and the Head of Government into one executive office. The same argument that justifies this expense on the President's family, the idea that they're the model family of the nation, can be more convincingly argued in the case of the British royal family, except they have the job for life. I imagine America's current 'model family' is a bit of a kick in the teeth.
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Re: Why do people like the Queen of England?

Unread postby Mawd » 22nd March, 2017, 8:09 pm

Nah Sturg I'd rather a proper democracy without the spectre of imperialism (an accusation that can be laid at either the US or the UK) although granted its still problematic for many Western Nations and former Commonwealth holdings. Germany I guess has a President and a Chancellor, but I'd probably still look elsewhere because their deliberate choice is because of obvious problems in the past (although it does highlight the issues of the practice).

Apart from John Key's douchebag of a son turning himself into a national celbrity because he's a rich fuccboi and the PM's son I can hardly recall anyone in NZ Parliment trumping up the idea of a First Family. You could say that's because we have The Crown but tbh no one here gets close to the frothing english appreciation of monarchy outside of the occasional opinion article in the paper.

Even in so called good cases it's often used for political dynasty building. It's helpful to have business connections with the First Family.
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