US Politics 2017

A forum for the respectful exchange of views on thought-provoking topics, whether sexuality-related or otherwise; please read the guidelines prior to posting.

Forum rules

Welcome to the Intellectual Discussion subforum.

This forum is the place for intellectual discussions, such as philosophical or scientific debates. There are some guidelines that apply specifically to posts in this forum, of which you will be expected to have made yourself aware before participating. They are as follows:

  • Intellectually stimulating topics only. If you can't have a deep discussion about something, it does not belong here.
  • If you're going to post, have something to say. When you make a new thread, write the initial post in a way that provides an introduction to the topic and invites further discussion. You could tell us how you feel and why, but always aim for constructive responses that further a discussion about the ideas involved, rather than a simple list of people's views. (Instead of asking "Are you a vegetarian?", discuss some of the arguments involved.) This guideline likewise applies for responses to topics.
  • Write using good English. That means full sentences with proper capitalisation, punctuation, spelling and grammar. No one is perfect, though; this is not an invitation to criticise others for minor mistakes.
  • Be nice. This is a forum for rational discourse, not flame wars. No one is always right. Be respectful of other people's views and accept that we are all entitled to our own.

These guidelines will be enforced by the moderators based on their best judgement, and anyone who does not take them seriously will lose the privilege of posting here. Spammers will be banned from the entire forum.

GTF's Presidential Approval: At this moment, do you approve of Donald Trump's job as President?

Yes
17
19%
No
72
81%
 
Total votes : 89

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 15th August, 2017, 6:14 pm

Image
Image

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Jacketh
Admin
 
First name: Jack
Posts: 9884
Likes received: 540
Joined: 12th June, 2012, 7:00 pm
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Pity » 15th August, 2017, 7:58 pm

Jacketh wrote:Image


Image

Image

Image

"They were just condemning racists!"
Image
Last edited by Pity on 15th August, 2017, 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Pity
hotty & disgraced member
 
First name: Marcus
Posts: 3028
Likes received: 477
Joined: 19th July, 2015, 11:50 pm
Location: Apex, NC
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Pity » 15th August, 2017, 8:05 pm

The amount of literal fake news going around is honestly unbelievable. All these establishment media companies have to lie and sensationalize everything just to stay in business, haha.
Image
User avatar
Pity
hotty & disgraced member
 
First name: Marcus
Posts: 3028
Likes received: 477
Joined: 19th July, 2015, 11:50 pm
Location: Apex, NC
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 15th August, 2017, 8:30 pm

Pity wrote:Image

"They were just condemning racists!"


...

Pity wrote:The amount of literal fake news going around is honestly unbelievable. All these establishment media companies have to lie and sensationalize everything just to stay in business, haha.


...

Why are you using a picture collage from months ago, of which has nothing to do with Charlottesville, and from an extremely sketchy site?. Anyone would think you're senstionazing and creating your own fake news! :keke:
Image

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Jacketh
Admin
 
First name: Jack
Posts: 9884
Likes received: 540
Joined: 12th June, 2012, 7:00 pm
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Pity » 15th August, 2017, 8:39 pm

Do you realize the "alt-left" does not only mean the violent counter-protesters in Charlottesville? Huh, who knew the alt-right only refers to people who attended the United The Right rally? :err:
Image
User avatar
Pity
hotty & disgraced member
 
First name: Marcus
Posts: 3028
Likes received: 477
Joined: 19th July, 2015, 11:50 pm
Location: Apex, NC
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Pity » 15th August, 2017, 8:43 pm

I know this is a very divisive issue that we should probably drop very soon, but we should stick with the facts.
Image
User avatar
Pity
hotty & disgraced member
 
First name: Marcus
Posts: 3028
Likes received: 477
Joined: 19th July, 2015, 11:50 pm
Location: Apex, NC
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 15th August, 2017, 8:45 pm

I never said anything about the alt-left, nor did you. You were replying to my tweet from Elizabeth Warren, who is on about the events in Charlottesville. Funnily enough you included two actual pictures, then a fake montage which makes it seem like they were hurt in Charlottesville. Sad.

Many of the pictures themselves have no evidence they were done by people from the "alt-left" either lol.
Image

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Jacketh
Admin
 
First name: Jack
Posts: 9884
Likes received: 540
Joined: 12th June, 2012, 7:00 pm
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Pity » 15th August, 2017, 8:57 pm

Elizabeth Warren's tweet was about Trump who just recently blamed both sides: the violent people on the alt-right and the violent people on the alt-left. Thus, when she said "[Trump] blamed those who condemn their violence and hate.", it means she believes all of counter-protesters/alt-left were peaceful. This is patently false.

Also, it is not a fake montage. Anyone who even glances at news coverage of Trump rallies and random assaults beyond BuzzFeed articles knows every single image in that montage accurately portrays the violent members of the alt-left that Trump condemned.

I will also add that the alt-left did hurt people at the rally. They brought mace, baseball, bats, and other weaponry that they used to attack the protestors with.
Image
User avatar
Pity
hotty & disgraced member
 
First name: Marcus
Posts: 3028
Likes received: 477
Joined: 19th July, 2015, 11:50 pm
Location: Apex, NC
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Ethán » 15th August, 2017, 9:01 pm

I thought only the blacks were violent
Twink enthusiast
User avatar
Ethán
Is shaking
 
First name: Ethan
Posts: 4007
Likes received: 637
Joined: 4th November, 2015, 3:49 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Country: Australia (au)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Vortex » 15th August, 2017, 9:14 pm

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/coun ... 76197.html

I didn't know Pity was coming to town!

Jokes aside, I am scared.
ImageImageImage

Ebsy wrote:Leave it to losers on Twitter to complain about being pandered to. You're supposed to complain when someone panders to others, not to you.
[4:46 AM] Saint Drogo: Also, you've got a strangely appealing asshole. I'll give you that much.
[6:03 AM] Pity: Omg... stop making me sound like a racist idiot
[4:51 AM] Scherzy: jerk off to clinton in the safety of your own bedroom luv
[2:56 PM] Saint Drogo: Literally let me use my cock as a paintbrush and my unborn children as paint.
User avatar
Vortex
Saint Drogo's mistress.
 
First name: Da'Neil Boxley
Posts: 8985
Likes received: 258
Joined: 28th August, 2008, 2:43 pm
Location: Kentucky
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Pity » 15th August, 2017, 9:17 pm

Vortex, it would be best if you opted out of going and discourage your friends from counter-protesting as well. After what happened in Charlottesville, it is best to leave them alone. Fire can't spread without oxygen.
Image
User avatar
Pity
hotty & disgraced member
 
First name: Marcus
Posts: 3028
Likes received: 477
Joined: 19th July, 2015, 11:50 pm
Location: Apex, NC
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 15th August, 2017, 9:32 pm

Yeah, we defo shouldn't counter-protest nazis. Nothing to counter there.
Image

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Jacketh
Admin
 
First name: Jack
Posts: 9884
Likes received: 540
Joined: 12th June, 2012, 7:00 pm
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Jacketh » 15th August, 2017, 9:58 pm

I can't at the amount of people who are trying to spin it (like, Trump himself) about the counter protesters. This person puts it better than I could ever:

Image
Image

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Jacketh
Admin
 
First name: Jack
Posts: 9884
Likes received: 540
Joined: 12th June, 2012, 7:00 pm
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby ConnorM » 15th August, 2017, 10:01 pm

Regardless of what you see as your "heritage", these people fly the flag of treason. They violently attack people to defend the statue of a traitor which was legally being removed by the government. They murdered a young woman in the course of this "protest" of theirs, and they use symbols such as the fasces and the swastika as well as the Blood Stained Banner in their attempts to intimidate those who would dissent from their views. In short, they are the amalgamation of everything that the United States has fought in its history - a conglomerate of radical white supremacists standing cheek-by-jowl with paleo-confederate Lost Causers and legitimate goddamned neo-Nazis.

All of this for a statue of a traitor. As I have said before, my third-great granduncle is not a man to be revered. He had good qualities, yes, and by the standards to which he held himself, he was a good man. However, he allowed his soldiers to kidnap freeborn black men in Pennsylvania to sell into slavery, and men under his command massacred prisoners of war, as well as taking prisoners who starved to death in prison camps under his authority. Most damningly, however, he betrayed the oath he swore as an officer to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Instead, he became the greatest and worst enemy the United States has ever faced, and the one who came closest to destroying it.

You know what my opinion on all of this is? They should have removed Lee and left the horse. Traveller never did anything wrong, and unlike his master, was the epitome of loyalty and courage under fire.

Image

Traveller the horse, with Robert E. Lee
Image
User avatar
ConnorM
Sir Conor the Incompetent
 
Posts: 417
Likes received: 88
Joined: 14th December, 2013, 11:21 pm
Location: NY
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Pity » 15th August, 2017, 10:20 pm

1. The Unite The Right protesters were there legally, the counter-protesters were not. "friggin nazis!!!!" is not an argument.

2. I can't find evidence of what she is saying on any news site. Trump said it perfectly. There were bad people on both sides and that is the truth. Any twist to that fact is an absolute lie.

3. Connor, stop pretending your belief that Gen. Lee was your "third-great granduncle," whether or true or not, grants you any sort of extra credibility. Some, of the protesters were carrying Nazi symbols. Not all. it seems that you missed the word "Unite" in "Unite The Right." "Unite" is defined as "to bring together," which means the attendees were not already united. Calling every protester there a white supremacist is the logical equivalent of claiming that every counter-protester is an Antifa terrorist.

This argument seems to be going in circles. There appears to be absolutely zero factual evidence being provided to prove that what Trump said was incorrect. What this means is that people are being deceitful by being intellectually and politically dishonest or they are simply ignorant. With that, I will no longer entertain said buffoonery and will await a more intellectually honest debate in the future.
Image
User avatar
Pity
hotty & disgraced member
 
First name: Marcus
Posts: 3028
Likes received: 477
Joined: 19th July, 2015, 11:50 pm
Location: Apex, NC
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby ConnorM » 15th August, 2017, 11:37 pm

Pity wrote:3. Connor, stop pretending your belief that Gen. Lee was your "third-great granduncle," whether or true or not, grants you any sort of extra credibility. Some, of the protesters were carrying Nazi symbols. Not all. it seems that you missed the word "Unite" in "Unite The Right." "Unite" is defined as "to bring together," which means the attendees were not already united. Calling every protester there a white supremacist is the logical equivalent of claiming that every counter-protester is an Antifa terrorist.

Let me explain to you something. My grandmother, Susan Marsland (née McCanne) was part of the organization "Daughters of the American Revolution" through her descendence from Minnie Lee McCanne, who was a member of the Daughters due to her direct descendence from "Light Horse Harry" Lee, a general in the American Revolutionary War, and the father of one Robert E. Lee. Now, I have the family records to prove my goddamned "belief" that R. E. Lee was my goddamned third-great granduncle, thank you very much. Now, as to why this matters? We're talking about my relative. I believe, due to my relation to the man, and my position as a descendent of the First Families of Virginia, that I have a more unique perspective on this matter, being perhaps more familiar (in the truest sense of the term) with him and his memory. I feel that it is my duty as his relative to show his human side, and his failings, where the people protesting the removal of his statue would portray him as an object of veneration. There must be another side of the man presented. He was, after all, human, and it angers and saddens me to see that someone would be killed and many more injured over something as inconsequential as a statue of my third-great granduncle. Can you really not see why it would give me a different perspective? Can you really not see why I would think it was relevant to the conversation? If this nonsense was about your relative, would you not feel compelled to speak up? To ask what the fuck is so important about a statue of a wayward forefather?
Now, as to the "Unite" aspect of this "Unite the Right" argument, do you not know the meaning of the words "conglomerate" or "amalgamation"? I did not accuse every single person in that rally of being a white supremacist. I accused every single person in that rally of standing shoulder to shoulder with the movements that are most antithetical to the values and ideals embodied by the United States of America. If you find nothing wrong with standing shoulder to shoulder with self-avowed Nazis and white supremacists, then by all means, join them. However, it would appear that logically speaking, "uniting" with such fascists and bigots would naturally categorize you and them in the same dichotomy, and in essence blur the distinctions.
You are correct in that the protesters were not all united. However, if the goal was to unite them, then by that logic, they were uniting with fascists and white supremacists, and I cannot say that I can find much distinction between self-avowed Nazis and those who would willingly unite with them.
Last edited by ConnorM on 16th August, 2017, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
ConnorM
Sir Conor the Incompetent
 
Posts: 417
Likes received: 88
Joined: 14th December, 2013, 11:21 pm
Location: NY
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Togetik » 16th August, 2017, 3:26 am

Pity is constantly linking shady right wing fake news in this forum and it makes me roll my eyes into the back of my skull that he never uses four seconds of rational thought to fact check anything.

Anyway, i'd like to quote general lee himself on confederate monuments and why he didn't want them to exist:
Kind of a shitty person wrote:"As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/rob ... monuments/

Basically he believed that monuments to the confederates would do nothing more than stoke the division that started the war in the first place, which is actually kind of the reason people are taking them down right now, but also very much off the mark on a lot of the issues people have with it.


Also, can we not be intellectually dishonest about the false dichotomy people are pretending exists between people advocating for ethnic cleansing, violently protesting and who actually murdered someone VS a bunch of people there to counter protest that hate speech?

It's not even "free speech" protected by the constitution or whatever because hate speech inciting violence is explicitly excluded from freedom of speech, and advocating for the death of ethnic groups or whatever during an armed protest is 100% advocating violence.

Image
User avatar
Togetik
Member
 
Posts: 589
Likes received: 79
Joined: 5th February, 2016, 11:24 pm
Country: Australia (au)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Dessy » 16th August, 2017, 9:24 am

Pity wrote:1. The Unite The Right protesters were there legally, the counter-protesters were not. "friggin nazis!!!!" is not an argument.

2. I can't find evidence of what she is saying on any news site. Trump said it perfectly. There were bad people on both sides and that is the truth. Any twist to that fact is an absolute lie.

3. Connor, stop pretending your belief that Gen. Lee was your "third-great granduncle," whether or true or not, grants you any sort of extra credibility. Some, of the protesters were carrying Nazi symbols. Not all. it seems that you missed the word "Unite" in "Unite The Right." "Unite" is defined as "to bring together," which means the attendees were not already united. Calling every protester there a white supremacist is the logical equivalent of claiming that every counter-protester is an Antifa terrorist.

This argument seems to be going in circles. There appears to be absolutely zero factual evidence being provided to prove that what Trump said was incorrect. What this means is that people are being deceitful by being intellectually and politically dishonest or they are simply ignorant. With that, I will no longer entertain said buffoonery and will await a more intellectually honest debate in the future.


1.) Who said they didn't have a permit (besides Trump)?
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36099395/cit ... -the-right

2.) The "bad people on both sides" is the ultimate cop-out considering one side was more local and was protesting the the side that was supporting white supremacy. That's like saying the group of bullies and the group of nerds both had bad people even though the nerd were only standing up for themselves.

3.) Nah they were all white supremacist. Flat out. If they weren't they would've left that mess.

---

Anyways Trump outed himself as a white supremacist for all to see yesterday so clink clink bitch.
Image
ImageImage
ImageImage


Image
User avatar
Dessy
Moderator Emeriti
 
First name: Des
Posts: 10317
Likes received: 306
Joined: 16th September, 2013, 2:02 am
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Pity » 16th August, 2017, 11:31 am

Please, please, please stop lying to yourself and to others, Dessy. You are either lying, dumb, or you were blatantly lied to by the fake news. I am going to assume it is the latter. I feel like I am in the twilight zone. Watch the videos of his statements. :crazy:

Begins at 0:57


Begins at 1:04


"Trump is a white supremacist, KKK member, and Nazi sympathizer!!!"

>Jewish daughter and son-in-law
>Appoints Jared Kushner, David Friedman, Jason Greenblatt, Steven Mnuchin, Stephen Miller, Carl Icahn, Gary Cohn, Boris Epshteyn, David Shulkin, Reed Cordish, and Avrahm Berkowitz. All Jews.
>Specifically condemns the KKK, Nazis, white nationalists, and the bad members of the alt-right.
>Heather Heyer's mother thanked President Trump.
>He says the driver could be considered a terrorist.
>Agrees local governments should take the statues down if they want.

Seriously, you all need to do better. You all can have opinions on whether or not the Confederate statues can remain because that is subjective, but stop lying just for the sake of being edgy. Is it that hard to look at Trump's statements and recognize what he is saying as truth? Take a look at the real pictures, whole videos, and accurate reports of what happened. Part of maturity is recognizing when you are wrong and when an opponent is correct. :tea:
Image
User avatar
Pity
hotty & disgraced member
 
First name: Marcus
Posts: 3028
Likes received: 477
Joined: 19th July, 2015, 11:50 pm
Location: Apex, NC
Country: United States (us)

Re: US Politics 2017

Unread postby Vortex » 16th August, 2017, 8:39 pm

Pity wrote:Vortex, it would be best if you opted out of going and discourage your friends from counter-protesting as well. After what happened in Charlottesville, it is best to leave them alone. Fire can't spread without oxygen.

Unfortunately, I cannot do this. I feel compelled to go.
ImageImageImage

Ebsy wrote:Leave it to losers on Twitter to complain about being pandered to. You're supposed to complain when someone panders to others, not to you.
[4:46 AM] Saint Drogo: Also, you've got a strangely appealing asshole. I'll give you that much.
[6:03 AM] Pity: Omg... stop making me sound like a racist idiot
[4:51 AM] Scherzy: jerk off to clinton in the safety of your own bedroom luv
[2:56 PM] Saint Drogo: Literally let me use my cock as a paintbrush and my unborn children as paint.
User avatar
Vortex
Saint Drogo's mistress.
 
First name: Da'Neil Boxley
Posts: 8985
Likes received: 258
Joined: 28th August, 2008, 2:43 pm
Location: Kentucky
Country: United States (us)

PreviousNext

Recently active
Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], CommonCrawl [Bot] and 7 guests