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Unread postPosted: 28th October, 2011, 4:45 am 
Turncoat
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Location: Commonwealth of Australia (Tasmania)
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No that is very common the smoke and the bangs disorient people herding them away in a much safer way then sending in hundreds of police in riot gear to use physical force to move them out.

It is much better then what happened in Melbourne Australia. The police gave orders for the area to be left and gave them hour of notice they refused to leave so the Police did this

It had lasted for days and it became a health hazard to the people living in it and the people that had to pass through. What right to a small minority lets call them the 1% that do not like the way things are going to take away a public place and deni other people the right to use and enjoy that area? Also the occupy protests in Australia are totally stupid as we are in a much better situation then the US

  
 
Unread postPosted: 28th October, 2011, 6:06 am 
Valar Dohaeris
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deastwood wrote:
What right to a small minority lets call them the 1% that do not like the way things are going to take away a public place and deni other people the right to use and enjoy that area?

Well, in the US, that would be the First Amendment.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 28th October, 2011, 3:18 pm 
Something New
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Deastwood, if it weren't for the government bailing out huge corporations then they'd be in the same situation everybody else is; scrambling for money. Don't deny it.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 29th October, 2011, 7:51 am 
Turncoat
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hunterplusmariska wrote:
Deastwood, if it weren't for the government bailing out huge corporations then they'd be in the same situation everybody else is; scrambling for money. Don't deny it.

if the government was not bailing out the huge corporations they would fall, if the government was not guaranteeing these huge corporations then they would not be out there lending money to people that could not afford to pay it back would they...The US government needs to stop guaranteeing the corporations when they let lehman brothers collapse it was the best thing they had done. It is the over regulations of a capitalist economy that is causing the problems not the people on wall street. an analogy I like is "The people on wall street might be getting drunk but it is the Government pouring the wine" and as Peter Schiff puts it so brilliantly "Capitalism means private profits and private losses it doesn't mean private profits and social losses" But what would he know he only predicted all this years ago, he also predicted the GFC and the housing crises as well as a number of other issues maybe its time his listened to.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 29th October, 2011, 12:55 pm 
Lana dull Cliché
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deastwood wrote:
It is much better then what happened in Melbourne Australia.

It's been happening in the US too for weeks where have you been? Watching too much major media?

The police force in Oakland just decided not to deal with shit and used the tear gas but in San Francisco, NYC, etc police used the same force to arrest protesters and they also used the health issue excuse. Copy + Paste.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 29th October, 2011, 2:26 pm 
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Last edited by Denuto on 30th October, 2011, 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed link.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 29th October, 2011, 7:46 pm 
Turncoat
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GlamLife wrote:
deastwood wrote:
It is much better then what happened in Melbourne Australia.

It's been happening in the US too for weeks where have you been? Watching too much major media?

The police force in Oakland just decided not to deal with shit and used the tear gas but in San Francisco, NYC, etc police used the same force to arrest protesters and they also used the health issue excuse. Copy + Paste.

I don't think the health issue is an excuse I think it is a genuine concern for the people that have to go through the area and for the people there.

At the end of the day you will get a few bad eggs in the police force but its not like all the protesters are saints either maybe if they just followed the police instructions there wouldn't be a problem.

The major media in Australia has been focusing on the Royal Visit and QANTAS's. When you go to the BBC news sight the occupy movement doesn't make the front page and there is only 1 article in the US&Canada sub news section

  
 
Unread postPosted: 29th October, 2011, 7:54 pm 
Lana dull Cliché
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deastwood wrote:
I don't think the health issue is an excuse I think it is a genuine concern for the people that have to go through the area and for the people there.

The people of OWS cleaned themselves the square they were occupying so Bloomberg couldn't evict them. He was doing it cause the square is privately owned (that doesn't sound like America at all) so the owners had a legit claim to clean the place but it wasn't necessary at the end.

deastwood wrote:
The major media in Australia has been focusing on the Royal Visit and QANTAS's. When you go to the BBC news sight the occupy movement doesn't make the front page and there is only 1 article in the US&Canada sub news section

Corporate media after all.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 29th October, 2011, 8:03 pm 
Turncoat
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GlamLife wrote:

deastwood wrote:
The major media in Australia has been focusing on the Royal Visit and QANTAS's. When you go to the BBC news sight the occupy movement doesn't make the front page and there is only 1 article in the US&Canada sub news section

Corporate media after all.

I think it is more people just don't care here the Royal visit was a big thing and the QANTAS's disputes are of importance to the Australian population, some dickheads sitting in a park attacking and being attacked by police may make the news one day heck it might even make it 2 or 3 days but when the people show that they have no interest in it they ignore it so the media stops reporting it.

We are not in the same situation Australia never went in to recession and we are preparing for a second GFC, Americas little 1st world problem is of no importance currently.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 29th October, 2011, 8:09 pm 
Lana dull Cliché
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deastwood wrote:
GlamLife wrote:

deastwood wrote:
The major media in Australia has been focusing on the Royal Visit and QANTAS's. When you go to the BBC news sight the occupy movement doesn't make the front page and there is only 1 article in the US&Canada sub news section

Corporate media after all.

I think it is more people just don't care here the Royal visit was a big thing and the QANTAS's disputes are of importance to the Australian population, some dickheads sitting in a park attacking and being attacked by police may make the news one day heck it might even make it 2 or 3 days but when the people show that they have no interest in it they ignore it so the media stops reporting it.

We are not in the same situation Australia never went in to recession and we are preparing for a second GFC, Americas little 1st world problem is of no importance currently.

Of course it isn't going to make headlines for months but if you followed the movement from the beginning you'd know that it took weeks for the major media to even acknowledge this was happening. It wasn't until the video of the arrests started having 1,000,000+ views that some channels like MSNBC started saying that the movement deserved coverage.

It only takes like 10 rambling idiots from the Tea Party saying Obama's the new Hitler to make a headline so where's the coherence in that? Where's the balance they claim to have?

  
 
Unread postPosted: 3rd November, 2011, 5:36 am 
Lana dull Cliché
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Country: Venezuela (ve)
I know this is a minor bump but the situation in Occupy Oakland seems to be turning quite violent and the protesters even managed to close down the port yesterday. Could this start escalating?

Some pics:
Image
Image
Image
Image

Apparently a clash with the police is happening as of right now.
Image

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-573 ... th-police/

  
 
Unread postPosted: 3rd November, 2011, 10:06 am 
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There are always a small number of people that will be violent and they always get the most media attention.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 4th November, 2011, 3:12 am 
Marquis Du Jardin de Pommes Sensuelle
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ericb91 wrote:
There are always a small number of people that will be violent and they always get the most media attention.


Yes, this...

So how does everyone feel about the passive aggressive crackdowns being made on occupy protests in a few different places?

Occupy Quebec today asked protestors to take it home, along with sweeping through the site and taking away everything deemed to be a fire hazard (extension cords, toasters), and other sites have demanded protestors move their tents farther apart.

I wonder if it's really necessary to camp out in the chosen "Occupy" spots for the long term? Is it more publicity versus simply committing to a normal protest?

  
 
Unread postPosted: 4th November, 2011, 3:36 am 
Valar Dohaeris
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arts_ed wrote:
I wonder if it's really necessary to camp out in the chosen "Occupy" spots for the long term? Is it more publicity versus simply committing to a normal protest?

A normal protest, like the ones against the Iraq War, go away at the end of the day, long before they could actually have any effect on the wider public opinion. OWS' long-term occupation has allowed for the movement to actually alter public opinion such that now 66% of Americans are in favour of a more even distribution of wealth.



  
 
Unread postPosted: 4th November, 2011, 3:46 am 
Lana dull Cliché
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FirePhantom wrote:

Dear lord. That's mind-blowing. The US congress is dead weight right now.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 4th November, 2011, 4:00 am 
Marquis Du Jardin de Pommes Sensuelle
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Location: Canada
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GlamLife wrote:
FirePhantom wrote:

Dear lord. That's mind-blowing. The US congress is dead weight right now.


It's not a very uncommon feeling, however, nor is it specific to the United States. Civic engagement has been on the decline for decades now, and people perceive assimilative pathways of political participation as having been closed off to them - often even incorrectly, which in itself shows the failure of the biggest political parties to mobilize at the level of the average citizen.

However, in the United States, I think a case could be made that those assimilative channels have actually been closed off to the average person as corporate lobbying has become exponentially more influential in the past 20-30 years.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 4th November, 2011, 12:03 pm 
Makes the World Taste Good
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Location: Scotland
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arts_ed wrote:
ericb91 wrote:
There are always a small number of people that will be violent and they always get the most media attention.


Yes, this...

So how does everyone feel about the passive aggressive crackdowns being made on occupy protests in a few different places?

Occupy Quebec today asked protestors to take it home, along with sweeping through the site and taking away everything deemed to be a fire hazard (extension cords, toasters), and other sites have demanded protestors move their tents farther apart.

I wonder if it's really necessary to camp out in the chosen "Occupy" spots for the long term? Is it more publicity versus simply committing to a normal protest?


I thought gaining publicity was a key part in rousing more protest / attracting public awareness.

I was wondering, are the majority of the protesters just unemployed? I saw on the news that Occupy Glasgow protesters were planning to stay put for a year or more; even being provided with portable toilets, water and food. It would help for those unemployed protesters to go and find jobs rather than sit in tents all day, soaking up taxpayers money. :david:

  
 
Unread postPosted: 4th November, 2011, 1:23 pm 
Lana dull Cliché
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arts_ed wrote:
GlamLife wrote:
FirePhantom wrote:

Dear lord. That's mind-blowing. The US congress is dead weight right now.


It's not a very uncommon feeling, however, nor is it specific to the United States. Civic engagement has been on the decline for decades now, and people perceive assimilative pathways of political participation as having been closed off to them - often even incorrectly, which in itself shows the failure of the biggest political parties to mobilize at the level of the average citizen.

However, in the United States, I think a case could be made that those assimilative channels have actually been closed off to the average person as corporate lobbying has become exponentially more influential in the past 20-30 years.

Then what's the point on voting on the first place?

  
 
Unread postPosted: 4th November, 2011, 6:44 pm 
Marquis Du Jardin de Pommes Sensuelle
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Location: Canada
Country: Canada (ca)
GlamLife wrote:
arts_ed wrote:
GlamLife wrote:
FirePhantom wrote:
video

Dear lord. That's mind-blowing. The US congress is dead weight right now.


It's not a very uncommon feeling, however, nor is it specific to the United States. Civic engagement has been on the decline for decades now, and people perceive assimilative pathways of political participation as having been closed off to them - often even incorrectly, which in itself shows the failure of the biggest political parties to mobilize at the level of the average citizen.

However, in the United States, I think a case could be made that those assimilative channels have actually been closed off to the average person as corporate lobbying has become exponentially more influential in the past 20-30 years.

Then what's the point on voting on the first place?


I wasn't actually speaking of voting when I said "assimilative pathways of political participation." To be more clear, I meant accessibility to elected officials (particularly in a single member district system) as well as interest groups, involvement in political parties, etc.

Whether to vote or not is an entirely different topic, but the argument usually put forward is that you should vote when the marginal benefit of doing so (your perceived impact on the outcome, social expectation and party mobilization) outweigh the marginal costs of voting (the time you spend registering and going to the polling station). The job of the political party, then, is to market itself in such a way that they enhance the benefits (by creating a community of like-minded people) while cutting down on the costs (many political parties in Canada will actually arrange someone to drive you to and from your nearest polling station if you simply give them a call).

The political culture that Americans have let happen to themselves is as responsible for any political hopelessness that they experience as much as corporate lobbying, however. Most people in the United States are conditioned throughout their lives to think inside the political binary - Democrat versus Republican (compared to many other liberal democracies). Party primaries alone are expected to represent millions upon millions of dollars being thrown around, and often coverage simply falls upon the wealthiest and best connected candidate, giving them more exposure to the average American. Grassroots and position politics have died at the federal level, in favor of big money and valence (who does it better?) politics.

The system the occupy protestors are concerned with did not happen all at once. It happened over decades, and the sad truth is that inaccessibility of governance has meant that few people noticed or cared when each individual policy was enacted.

Does this mean it's hopeless to vote?

Only if you buy into it. In my opinion, if anyone in the Occupy Wall Street movement is worth their salt, they will work their asses off at the community level to alter the structure of the House of Representatives, one seat at a time.

The Occupy movement finally has their visibility, and if they squander it then they are nothing but waste. All it takes is a handful of them spending that next year campaigning and talking to people, instead of tenting in public space.

  
 
Unread postPosted: 5th November, 2011, 3:12 pm 
Valar Dohaeris
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OccupyWriters.com
Daniel Handler (a.k.a. Lemony Snicket) wrote:
Thirteen Observations made by Lemony Snicket while watching Occupy Wall Street from a Discreet Distance

1. If you work hard, and become successful, it does not necessarily mean you are successful because you worked hard, just as if you are tall with long hair it doesn’t mean you would be a midget if you were bald.

2. “Fortune” is a word for having a lot of money and for having a lot of luck, but that does not mean the word has two definitions.

3. Money is like a child—rarely unaccompanied. When it disappears, look to those who were supposed to be keeping an eye on it while you were at the grocery store. You might also look for someone who has a lot of extra children sitting around, with long, suspicious explanations for how they got there.

4. People who say money doesn’t matter are like people who say cake doesn’t matter—it’s probably because they’ve already had a few slices.

5. There may not be a reason to share your cake. It is, after all, yours. You probably baked it yourself, in an oven of your own construction with ingredients you harvested yourself. It may be possible to keep your entire cake while explaining to any nearby hungry people just how reasonable you are.

6. Nobody wants to fall into a safety net, because it means the structure in which they’ve been living is in a state of collapse and they have no choice but to tumble downwards. However, it beats the alternative.

7. Someone feeling wronged is like someone feeling thirsty. Don’t tell them they aren’t. Sit with them and have a drink.

8. Don’t ask yourself if something is fair. Ask someone else—a stranger in the street, for example.

9. People gathering in the streets feeling wronged tend to be loud, as it is difficult to make oneself heard on the other side of an impressive edifice.

10. It is not always the job of people shouting outside impressive buildings to solve problems. It is often the job of the people inside, who have paper, pens, desks, and an impressive view.

11. Historically, a story about people inside impressive buildings ignoring or even taunting people standing outside shouting at them turns out to be a story with an unhappy ending.

12. If you have a large crowd shouting outside your building, there might not be room for a safety net if you’re the one tumbling down when it collapses.

13. 99 percent is a very large percentage. For instance, easily 99 percent of people want a roof over their heads, food on their tables, and the occasional slice of cake for dessert. Surely an arrangement can be made with that niggling 1 percent who disagree.

  
 
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